This is a video of the optional exercise of doing “Place” with focus and “side” position with focus.

It’s funny; you will see that Khina often looks down when I say “WATCH” if she is already looking at me.   She quickly looks back up again and refocuses, but I’m not sure why she does this and what I should do about it.   Perhaps separate the “WATCH” command out, and work on it separately a bit more?

If she is looking down or away and I say “WATCH”, she snaps up and focuses on me…..so it’s just a problem when she is already looking at me.  

She also has a bit of a funny position when she is on the side.   Especially when I extend my left arm out--she sometimes leans away a bit.   I'm wondering if she is a bit worried /unsure about my left arm going to her side?  Don't know.  Maybe it will disappear with lots of repetition?

Thanks!

Karen Myrfield

Wonderful work Karen and beautiful Khina.  Just a question - why do you say watch when she's already watching?  

Are there any other behaviours where you use this strategy like - Back (cue) and then while backing up repeat Back (cue) to get behaviour to go on?  If she know's the concept from other behaviours cool - but if she doesn't understand what a repeated cue means she could just be confused.  

For duration (if this is what you are after) you could just cue watch and then count/add duration before reinforcing - but remember don't just go 5 sec, 6 sec, 8 sec, 12 sec - always making it harder, instead see saw from easy to harder to easy - like 5 sec, 7 sec, 3 sec, 9 sec, 5 sec, 2 sec, 10 sec.  

Ok  so let me get this straight - she's using the environmental settup to cue her to look at you (cause that's what you do when mum does x etc).  You're adding in the cue verbally trying to capture it while she's doing it.  Yeah - know some people who use this strategy to add a cue to particularly a duration behaviour.  As you pointed out though it is effectively breaking off the behaviour and therefore you may risk creating a behaviour chain that is 'cue' - look away - rengage when what you want is 'cue' - engage.  Not sure what Forrest and others will come up with. 

Are you able to get your verbal cue in before she initially engages - even if that is as you set up the environmental cues?  Not sure if this will help in this exercise but an idea to try outside this setup perhaps - my last GSD was so obsessed with training that we'd go to class or club and when they came to work on attention I just couldn't get him to look away because he spent the full hour (even at 4 months old) sitting in front of me or lying in front of me working that eye contact/attention.  So i had to throw a piece of food down for him so that he would break off to get it and then when he turned and looked at me again, mark and throw etc until I build up some duration on how long he looked before I marked and threw.  Then I was able to add the cue - throw the food, he gobbled it and I knew that there was 99.9% chance (well a good 90%) that he would turn back to me so i could use the cue as he swallowed and then he would turn and look - repeat.   It worked for us....but again not in this set up.  

Hi Leanne,

Argh!   I had “edited” my last response cuz it got sent before I finished it.  I edited it and added a lot, but it somehow didn’t post.   I should ALWAYS write my response in a word document and cut and paste.  When will I ever learn?  ;)

My intention is not to try to add in the WATCH cue verbally by trying to capture it while she is doing it.  She knows the cue WATCH.   If she is looking away and I cue WATCH, she will look up at me.  I  don’t use it as a duration marker either b/c that is what we use the word GOOD for.  (YES is our duration marker and GOOD is our duration marker).

When she learned the behaviour BACK, she was doing it with a hand signal to start (when she was playing Frisbee).   So while she was learning BACK, I did say it while she was doing it---to attach the word to the action.   Now that she knows the word BACK, I only use it as a verbal cue for her to do it.  

Now for Forrest’s lessons this week, I thought a lot about it.   Even if she is looking at me, I haven’t actually asked her to do anything.   So how can I release her later by saying YES.   I felt like that might confuse her.

But you point out correctly that she is using the environmental setup to cue her to look at me.   So am I confusing her by adding the verbal cue WHILE she is doing it already?  I don’t know.   I definitely see your point…..       I don’t know what to say.   

I can certainly try to give the verbal cue before she initially engages.   Like you say, she knows the whole set up and knows mom expects me to look at her so it can be hard to “beat her to it”.   Obviously you had success with your GSD using this.  Khina is very attentive, but I really need to have a solid and proofed WATCH.  She can easily….so easily….get distracted.  And it is during THOSE times, that I REALLY need her to pay attention to the WATCH cue.  

Thank you Leanne.   You are making me think this eve!   Hurting my brain, but its good for me!  J

Karen

Karen, let's see what Forrest has to say.  It's hurting my brain too!

Karen, you know, this looks like really good work to me. And I think khina's attitude and body language are excellent! 

There are a couple things I'd change:

1) Have your arm already extended before you cue "watch". She knows the watch, that's not the problem. However, you'll see how the extended arm affects the head position - so we want to ensure we've got it extended, position affected, and then 'naming' what we love (as Susan Garrett would say). 

2) Loosen up a bit. I know that's easy to say, and I'm not really sure how to advise this, but I think adding more movement/break out rewards (food chase, hand target chase) might add a bit more energy and looseness to the work. She's eager, focused, and could benefit from a little more flow.

I do notice a bit of the outside lean when you come onto her. Could be her, could be a border collie thing, could be she's learned to keep an eye on both you and the hands doing this. To help change it i would:

-use a barrier on her left side to help support her in.

-lure her directly into the food when you set yourself up on her (this will distract her) and then lift that hand straight up and then extend out. When you have focus, mark and feed high. This way she's focused on eating from the hand as you set up and may not notice you stepping into place as much, and thus won't drift out.

Repetition should help this, too!

All in all, a great session, karen. You really are in a very good place with all this work. See if you can liven your session up with a few novel break out rewards, and don't be afraid to use some direct luring as described to set her up (or yourself onto her) with a little more control before the focus work.